I'm involved in a discussion group about a book called "Jim and Casper Go to Church" - written by Jim Henderson, a pastor/housepainter and Matt Casper, an atheist hired by Jim to accompany him to various Christian churches.

Disclaimer: Our discussion group is not unbiased- it is held in a United Methodist church, and most attendees are members. However- it has proven so far (on week 4) to at least be a healthy discussion, and not a debate. I'm honestly not a real fan of debate- or the whole "I'm right, you're wrong, and I could prove it if only you weren't so narrow-minded."

The opinions expressed in our class range from socially moderate to socially liberal, but don't cover extremes. As a rule, legalistic Christians view our church as anything from slightly misguided (not enough focus on sin) to blasphemous (preaching the untruth) and therefore steer clear. OTOH- I would say our church doesn't really appeal to the unchurched, atheists, or extremist liberals because it is difficult for some to believe the motto posted on our door "Open Hearts, Open Doors, and Open Minds", could apply to any Christian, no matter how well-meaning they may be.

Jim the Christian, recruited Casper the Atheist from an Off the Map blog contest to find an atheist willing to attend churches and speak openly about his experiences (The site is: http://www.off-the-map.org/atheist/. Don't look for the same commitment to open-mindedness here-the threads too often are  dominated by people with an agenda-though they are generally polite about it.)

ANYHOO- these two guys, who become good friends, travel all over the country to visit many different types and sizes of churches, and this book documents the experience. In our group of about 20, questions based on the book are posed to us and we are invited to share our perspectives.

Some of Casper's observations demand a response. In one example, at Willow Creek- a mega-church outside Chicago, Casper is astounded to hear the preacher thank people for their prayers to help him land an interview with Bono. Casper says, "People are being killed needlessly in every corner of the world, kids are starving, and people are praying for their pastor to meet a rock star? That's ludicrous."

This does not resemble our church prayer experience- in fact Pastor Bill once got a complaint that his prayers for peace, and to help us to do as Jesus taught- to feed the poor, visit the sick and imprisoned, have compassion for the mentally ill, and to love our neighbors, etc. were too depressing. Yet I think it helps us to understand the perspective of non-Christians who think that at best we are largely failing in our call to help those in need, and at worst, whipping up a frenzy against "sinners" (which means everyone NOT like them), praying for personal wealth while we ignore the cries of the poor (clearly they are poor because they are "sinners") and praying for our pastors to win famous friends and influence people.  When you look at sheer numbers, Willow Creek has 20,0000 attendees each week, so its influence can't be ignored. It is obvious that these megachurches are as good at marketing as the more legalistic churches are at lobbying for political influence (If that point isn't obvious, just search "those wacky fundies" on Teresa's blog, and grab a coffee- cuz' you'll be reading a while.)

A large chunk of the questions from Casper in this book ask "If Jesus did X, why aren't you focused on X?", based on his experience visiting these churches. It is fair to say that this was his take-away more often than not.

There were also a couple of times Casper felt genuinely moved (not moved in the God-sense, but in a way he describes as "the humans' need for expression taking over"), and a couple instances where he was blown away by the positive impact a church had individuals or their community- hard-core criminals who authentically turned their lives around, and one church in an impoverished area that began their mission by providing a washer and dryer for the homeless to use so they could wash their clothes before appearing for a job interview, and now provides a free health clinic, free daycare, and builds no-profit homes for low-income people in abandoned neighborhoods.

Out of curiosity, I looked up some numbers. According to the Association of Religous Data Archives: http://www.thearda.com/mapsReports/reports/US_2000.asp  US mainline protestants +26,150,866, Catholics 62,035,042, Orthodox 989,106, Evangelical Protestant 39,935,307, Other religions 12,254,099 and Unclaimed 140,057,419 (which includes atheists as well as all others who were not adherents of any of the 188 groups included). Interesting. There are 3x as many Unclaimed as there are Evangelicals.

Our church is lumped in with the Mainline Protestants. Seeing the number 26,150,866 leads me to believe that if we strived to improve on practicing what we preach- that is a LOT of potential to help the poor, sick, and oppressed. Considering many of my friends fall in the Unclaimed group, and I know they too desire to help the poor, sick, and the oppressed- it helps me see how important it is to find common ground and pool our resources, and for Christians to, as Jim puts it "NOT be jerks to non-Christians."  In order to do this, we have to be willing to really get to know people beyond their soundbite "I'm an atheist" or "I'm a Christian" or "I'm a Wiccan", or whatever.

I guess that's the point of attempting to have an open dialogue versus a Convince-Fest.

Pastor Bill is gone this week, and I volunteered to lead the discussion on Wednesday night- and no one objected loudly enough to stop me, so if any of you have your own thoughts or perceptions you'd like to share, I'm interested to read them, and to share them with our group. Thank you to all who are willing to share, let others be heard, and not attempt to dominate the discussion or convince anyone of your stance.

Trees' friend Sue.